What actually is the status of the SSPX? They of course say that no, they are not now, nor have they ever been excommunicated. A lot of trads apparently tend to agree while the modernist of course is convinced that they are in fact -and hopefully perpetually- excommunicated. Every last one of the old church scum. His Eminence Cardinal Hoyos makes things a bit clearer, he says to Zenit:
“The excommunications for the consecration[of the four bishops at Econe in 1988] done without the Pope’s permission affects only those bishops who carried out the consecration, and those bishops who received episcopal ordination in this illicit form in the Church, but it does not affect the priests or the faithful. Only those bishops are excommunicated.”
Now some questions do remain in my mind, does that mean that no priest of the SSPX is in fact excommunicated? Does that include those ordained by the excommunicated bishops?
In practice, making the broadest interpretation of the good cardinals words I could then simply treat the local SSPX chapel as any other ordinary church within the diocese.
However, and here comes the problem with the SSPX priests, they may not be excommunicated, their sacraments are certainly valid but they are not incardiated into the local Church, consequently they do not have the celebret which gives them the canonical right to offer Mass and administer the sacraments, making their actions canonically illegal.
I’m not a canonist, but the whole situation seems rather messy. Could their status be summed up as canonically irregular but not schismatic, except for the bishops of course?
Hello,
I found this very interesting article online, and could not help but post it here as your page directly is talking about the same topic of Cardinal Hoyos, SSPX, and the Latin Mass, so please I would love to read some reactions from a Traditional Catholic prospective, I am actually a High-Anglican who LOVES the Latin Mass, and I am thinking of “crossing over” like Tony Blair, but I need to know more about the Moral Veracity of the Catholic Traditionalist Movement. Honestly, I am content with the Oxford Movement and the books of Cardinal Newman have brought me closer to Roman Catholicism, but articles like this and anti-Semitic rages of Mel Gibson concern me and keep me looking in from the outside!
Any consolations would be appreciated.
In Christ,
+Joseph
——————–
Text of Article I found here:
http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/bks/537460262.html
Hello, could anyone answer this scholarly question? Does (Catholic or non-Catholic) anyone know the FARC-EP’s Stance (or Political Policy) toward the Latin Tridentine Mass…or Old Roman Rite Latin Mass? I know that some Colombian Rebel Movements (FARC, ELN, etc) in the 60s were found, funded, and organized by so-called Catholic priests who some were generals (jefes), is that really the truth? Yes you know, in the 1960s, there was only the good Old Latin Mass before those Conciliar Changes of the Vatican II Council circa 1969 took place. I read that in Communist China, the government of Communists allow a special Church called the Chinese Communist Patriotic Catholic Church to exist (in fact they use it for their political purposes), this sect rebelled from Rome, still they celebrate the Old Latin Mass Liturgy (pre-Vatican II style) with their valid succession of bishops, anyone know about this (anyone from China)? Yet, I admit that, I am not sure does Pro-Chavez Communist Army called the FARC-EP have chaplains (deacons, priests, bishops) like a regular governmental military? Do they have a Seminary? And how about the ELN too, (Padre Torres?), and the various other rebel groups- there are many of them in the montanas? Do these various schismatic groups communicate together for special feasts like Christmas(~Communcatio in Sacris)?
I was wondering if they tolerate Traditionalist Latin Mass Catholic Priests (SSPX, SSPV, CMRI, FSSP)? Also what is their official policy toward the Greek and Russian Orthodox Priests? Do they like Putin’s Patriarch Alexis? Someone said they kill priests a lot (and a bishop in Cali), is that really true or a lie?
Frankly, I am a little worried to hear Chavez mentioned in Peace Talks, I read he is involved in the Sin (Betrayal) of Communicatio in Sacris with non-Catholics (like Muslims). Where is Tony Blair in this mess (I hear he likes the Old Latin Mass as he left the Anglican Communion)? I have to tell you, that I am no theologian, actually, I read these matters from a new and brave scholarly book written by a Hispanic-Latino Professor, Dr. DeTucci (I think he studied at Harvard and the Javierana in Bogota, Colombia?), you can browse the book online by going to Lulu Bookstore:
http://www.lulu.com/content/1753466
Dear Colombians (and Venezuelans), in my studies, I also read the Liberator Simon Bolivar forbade Non-Catholic Churches in Gran Colombia (and any “Communicatio in Sacris”), is that true? I read this Time Article that confirmed these Bolivarian Laws:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,937395,00.html?promoid=googlep
I guess Bolivar was very Anti-Masonic, right? Does Harvard-educated President Alvaro Uribe take a stance on this or is he Indifferent? Or is Uribe under the control of the AUC, or not? I read online that Scholar-Cardinal Castrillón Hoyos of Medellin, Colombia (Bishop Prelate and Vatican Official of the Latin Tridentine Mass Indult Commission Ecclesia Dei–which ironically is trying to heal the Latin Schismatic Rebel Groups formed by the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre of France which extend globally including in Europe and the Americas, now headed by Monsignor Fellay) is actually a secret-Jefe Lord of the Right-Wing AUC, is this true? Further I read he also has helped the M-19 Blocks officially pontificating as their Bishop during the Solemn High Pontifical Old Latin Masses that were held for Medellin and Cali Cartel Families, and of course he must of collected their rich donations or la comienza they call it. Does anyone reading this, or perhaps sharing this, have revealing intelligence on this grave scandal (tell me)? Honestly, I suppose and I guess that this big rumor may be leaking around also (esp. in Caracas) that Hoyos also helps certain Israel/Zionist Programs with financial laundering (washing the dinero) of funds under the guise of Vatican-Church Hierarchy ( e.g., the Most Holy Family Monastery’s Michael Dimond has been cited by some Bp. Michael Carter as being the Zionist Superior Jefe of this Programe). Further, I saw on television recently (Univision) that Director Oliver Stone (a Socialist) is investigating this whole Latin-Colombian Schism and claims to have the scoop of inside information on Uribe, Hoyos, and Friends to definitely expose them in a High-Budget Documentary that will be released to movie theaters around the world (in Spanish and English). May I guess there is a certain Liberal-Socialist Bishop Jason Spadafore (from Palma de Troya, Spain) involved in the fiasco? I guess so!
Please share this reading and write me if you have something to share.
Thanks,
Rosa
P.S. Frankly…I also read about Vlad Tepes, a Catholic Prince who resisted the Turkish Muslim Invasion in Romania, he is a national hero to Romania, and he actually died a Roman Catholic! Vlad certainly put fear into his enemies by his strict justice, and his enemies lied that he was a vampire to demonize him. So people can make up stories about people, and call them terrible things, like a terrorist. You can read more here:
http://www.vladcatholic.com
ceremoniere: The bishops were excommunicated in 1988. Before that, Paul VI suspended Lefebvre and all his priests. They were not allowed to exerise their priestly duties. They did not listen. Now, some contend that Williamson and others are in schism for some of their actions, including pandering to the Novus Ordo, encouraging and teaching men ordained in the new rite to celebrate the Mass, and so on.
All valid concerns. But the greatest concern for all of us is the possibility that Lefebvre himself was not a bishop, since the man who ordained him was outside the Church. Williamson argues that he had a co-consecrator when he was made bishop, but that doesn’t matter since you first must be ordained priest.
I think you’ve done a pretty good summing up; if you ever get a a balanced reply from someone – preferably an expert in canon law – do let us know!
The Pope stated that they were excommunicated for a schismatic act, yet they did not do a schismatic act.
Under canon law they would have excommunicated themselves unless they ‘qualified’ for one of the extenuating circumstances, which they did.
Since they did no schismatic act, how could they be in schism?
Since they were not excommunicated, how could they be excommunicated?
The big problem is their irregular position, but without their irregular position would we have all the concessions that have come since 1984?
It seems to me that the SSPX is a tool that God is using to bring about a true reform, bringing the Church back to herself.